by Will Novak Yes, I guess I should've said "travel lanes" or something. Now that I re-read it, its unclear, sorry!

by Derek H1 I thought you were talking about the two way left turn lane in the center of the road. So this topic is about 6 lane roads, not 5 lane roads.

by Will Novak VVV I'm not sure what you mean 1 regular lane in each direction needs to be removed. Using 19th Ave as an example, each lane is approx 12 feet. There's 3 lanes going one way, 2 the other. Drop it to two lanes each way, now you have 12 extra feet. Bike lanes are usually 6 feet, so there ya go.

Then if you also get rid of the turn lane, except for at major intersections, you can add planter strips between the sidewalk & street or just widen the sidewalks and add in sidewalk trees in planters.

I think we're saying the same thing here and maybe talking past each other a bit...?

by Derek H1 In order to accommodate bicyclists, it's either get rid of that lane (or one regular lane in each direction) and build bike lanes, or reduce the speed limit to 35 mph or less and paint sharrows on the rightmost lane, or acquire more land. Something must be done. A narrow 45+ mph road with no bike lane is unacceptable.

by Will Novak That solves some of the problems, yes. I'd like to see the side streets in neighborhoods like Coronado, Willo, Melrose, etc. be available for on street parking. You see this a lot in LA. A main arterial, with retail/offices built up to the street, the parking is allowed about a block or two deep (parallel style) into the neighborhoods behind. The historic 'hoods in PHX may bristle at this initially, but if you want to be in an urban location, this sort of thing comes with that.

But really my intent with getting rid of things like the suicide lanes on the 7's and the 5th lane on 19th Ave & 16th St is to create room for bike lanes and planter strips. As a pedestrian, it feels unsafe to walk down a skinny 6' sidewalk as 3 lanes of cars blaze by at 50MPH. Eliminate a lane and you now have 12 feet to work with. If you also eliminate the turn lane and only have it at major intersections, now you've got 24' to work with.

by Will Novak And you have that right. You don't however have the right to shove traffic, pollution, accidents, noise, etc. into someone elses neighborhood.

by Will Novak Because then what if I live in say Coronado and need to go North on 7th St but it only goes South? Or if I live in Melrose and need to go the wrong way on 7th Ave? Thats a huge pain for people in the neighborhoods.

How about we design neighborhoods for the people who live in them, not for the people who want to barrel through them and bring nothing but noise, pollution and traffic?

We should plan our Cities like we plan our water, i.e. 'prior appropriation'. The people in Willo, Coronado, FQ Story, Encanto Palmcroft, Alvarado, etc. were here first, long before the people in Moon Valley & Deer Valley. If crossing through the older neighborhoods is inconvenient for those in Moon & Deer Valleys, sorry. Either find a job closer to home, find a home closer to your job, or to ValleyMetro and look up your nearest bust/rail line.

by Will Novak It probably won't ever run on 7th Ave, as its over on 19th Ave. But 7th St is a good possibility, north of Camelback. I'd rather up 7th St than up the SR51. It would give the folks in Sunnyslope, Moon Valley, Deer Valley & Paradise Valley a better option into the City than driving down 7th.

by Will Novak I'm telling them there's not enough traffic to necessitate 5 lanes on those roads. I'm telling them because they chose to live out North or South and work Downtown, DOES NOT give them the right to destroy other peoples lives and neighborhoods

by Will Novak Well your thinking is flawed for 2 reason:

1. I live close to where I work, play, dine and shop. So I don't have to sit in traffic no matter what. More people should do the same.

2. There's zero traffic on any of the N/S arterials in Central PHX right now. 19th Ave, 7th Ave, 7th St, and 16th St are ghost towns 75% of the time. Very occasionally there's enough "traffic" that you actually have to pay attention while driving, there's never bumper to bumper traffic.

Its unfair to say the people who live in Central Phoenix should have their neighborhoods cannibalized because someone who chose to live in Deer Valley and work downtown needs to get home 5 minutes faster.